Interview w/El-P
By: Justin Rizzio

Ever wear a sock with a hole in it and think that no one will ever see it, only to find yourself in a situation where everyone does? “Take your shoes off please,” was the first thing El-P’s tour manager said as I stepped onto the tour bus. EL was not there yet so I had a seat and waited. I didn’t mind though, because right in front of me was a laptop playing instrumentals from Dizzee Rascal’s new Def Jux released album Math’s + English.  Next to the laptop was Dizzee, practicing his set which was only about 2 hours away. He greeted me in his thick, slang heavy, cockney accent. After asking “what?” several times, I just nodded and smiled, pretending to understand what he had just said. I was actually more concerned with the hole in my sock, thinking to myself before I left the house; “who cares? when tonight will I be in a situation where my shoes would have to be removed?”

I made a mental note to go home later that night and throw away all socks with holes. I still never got around to doing that. After all, when will I be in a situation where my shoes would have to be removed? Here’s an interview I did with EL-P.
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(Interview conducted outside of a R5 Productions show @ The Church)
215hiphop: Def Jux has been one of the leading independent labels for a minute now. Is it easier or harder for you, being an artist on your own label?

EL-P : It has its advantages and its disadvantages. It’s easier because everyone who I work with and everyone on staff are people I handpicked and people who I trust. And I’m not gonna steal my money.

I’m not gonna take my money either, that’s the other problem. Being an artist on my own label, a lot of times it ends up where I can’t take the money that I’m owed because we’re an independent label. It’s the choice of taking my royalties that I’m owed at the time or keeping the label afloat. It can get complicated because I have to split my time and sometimes I just wanna say “fuck everyone” and just be with the artists. Just do music and not give a flying fuck about anyone else and helping anyone else.

215: Ever think the opposite and just want to run a label?

EL-P: No. I don’t want to run a label. I have no interest in running a record label. But I do like working with people. I do like artists and I do like being a part of that. I feel like, at this point, I’ve figured out a few things and have something to offer. It’s a big part of my life and I’m glad it came into my life. When I was younger, it was all about me, me, me, all the time. It’s become different now. It’s humbled me a bit. I’ve managed to think outside of just me and my ego and have gotten to the point where I understand there’s a bigger picture.

It’s good, but it’s also hard because sometimes you don’t wanna complicate what you’re doing. If you’re an artist and you’re on a label and things are hard, you at least know that you don’t have to worry about whether or not the label has to keep the lights on in their office. No artist is gonna be like, “hey, you know what Interscope, if you’re having any trouble with your bills, why don’t you just not pay me my royalties.” It gets a little weird.

215: As far as your artists go, does friendship ever get in the way of business?

EL-P: It’s a complicated endeavor to be friends with people and to do business with them. There have been pitfalls. Sacrifices have been made. Friendships have died because of it. It’s almost impossible to be able to really handle it all the time. As much as you try, you can’t always look at it the same way as everyone else.

For me, I just spent the last couple of years working to the point where I’m separated enough. I don’t handle any of the paperwork or any of the nitty gritty. I’ve realized my place in the label was just be A&R and to be there for the artists to help them and to give ideas and direction.

Any time you’re on a record label there’s always questions. It’s always gonna be something. It’s business, it’s serious. The one thing that I know is that I would never want to be in a situation where I was asking friends of mine to make sacrifices because they’re on my label and I don’t have my shit together. Know what I mean?

215: That’s a perfect segue for my next question. Recently, I did an interview with C-Rayz Walz. He said that he felt he was forced to compromise himself as an artist and that’s why he left the label. What’s your side to that?

EL-P: Yeah, he felt that way. I think it was because we were giving him criticism on things he wanted to do. We weren’t telling him yes to everything. I think he felt that we should have backed him 100% on every idea that he had. C-Rayz is actually family to me. He’s a good friend of mine and I know that he feels that way. It’s just the reality; he reacted that way.

The fact of the matter is that I’m not doing my job if I’m just saying “yes.” I’m not a distribution warehouse, I’m a record label. If you’re working with me, we’re working together. I’m gonna say what I say and help guide. I’m not gonna do it out of malice. I’m gonna do it out of what I think is right. I’m not always right. That’s a fact.

I know that he feels that way and I wish that he didn’t, but I don’t lose sleep at night over the fact that we said what we felt we had to say during the times we were working with him creatively. I think that that’s coming from a noble place and from a dude that has serious respect for that cat. When you’re working with someone, you want them to do the best they possibly can and to be able to blow up. If you’re a record label, I don’t know what record label just doesn’t say anything if they think that there could be something done better or something approached in a better way.

So, yeah, that’s one of the hard parts about doing this. You never know how someone’s gonna react. If I tell you something that’s critical, you have two ways to react. “Fuck you” or “maybe you’re right, thanks for the guidance.” I certainly don’t take the perspective of “I’m right.” I do take the perspective: “I’m gonna have that conversation with you.” I do have the confidence enough to say it.

215: Do you take constructive criticism well?

EL-P: Probably…not. (laughs). I mean, do you? I hope I do man. I hope I do. I only have one rule. If you criticize me, you’re fired and I’ll never talk to you again. If you work for me, and you criticize me, you’re fired. If you’re a friend, and you criticize me, you’re not my friend.

215: (To Mr. Dibbs, El-P’s tour DJ) Would you agree with that?

Mr Dibbs: I actually wasn’t paying attention, but El is probably the greatest person I know.

EL-P: He just got $50.

215: After Cage signed with you, fans noticed that his appearance started to change. He said in an interview regarding his new look, that previously he felt he was perpetrating a fraud on black culture. Your appearance has also changed from when you were in Company Flow, so do you agree with his statements or is it just changing with the times?

EL-P: I don’t think I would phrase the answer to that question the same way Chris [Palko AKA Cage] would. He’s his own person. He has his own ideas about things. I know what he was trying to say though.

The one thing for me is like, who am I exactly supposed to be like? Who is it out there that is supposed to be telling me? What I’m supposed to be listening to? What I’m supposed to wear and dress like? Look at me. I wear the same thing every fucking day! It’s not a shock that I wear black jeans and a black t-shirt. It’s not some radical transformation. But I don’t look like what I looked like when I was 20. So what?

At this point, I just don’t think that people feel that…It doesn’t fucking matter. If your caught up in all that shit, if you think that what you’re wearing is somehow bringing you closer to an identity or a culture, or branding you more genuine than someone else, I think that you’re a little bit mistaken and possibly even immature. Chris got a big reaction because he lost a bunch of weight and started looking a certain way. People were like, “What the fuck? You’re a traitor. You don’t look like we all knew that you looked like. And we copied the way you looked, because we looked up to you!” Listen to the music, you know? I don’t think you’re gonna get a positive reaction out of any grown ass motherfucker when you ask them why they’re wearing what they’re wearing.

Even if it had nothing to do with music, if you were to walk up to someone and ask, (in a mocking tone) “Hey man, what’s the deal? Five years ago you were wearing North Face and Timberland boots and now you dropped weight and you grew your hair a little bit. What’s the deal with that?” I just don’t understand the question. It just seems a little…gay. It really does. It really does. It just seems gay.

215: It really doesn’t matter to me what you wear.

EL-P: Congratulations.

215: Well, I bought the Cage album regardless, but…

EL-P: Congratulations.

215: …it was actually more of a question on do you think that dressing a certain way is perpetrating a fraud on black culture?

EL-P: I don’t have a comment on that. I would never have phrased it that way. He’s his own man and we don’t have the same mind, but, we are good friends. I would explain it in the way I just did explain it.

215: What exactly happened at MTV with the Spank Rock incident?

EL-P: I was really drunk and I saw Spank Rock get on stage and I thought their performance was really horrible. They brought up a bunch of Hooters strippers on stage and he was doing an old 2 Live Crew song that I knew by heart. It wasn’t one of my favorite 2 Live Crew songs either. I just thought that it was really silly. Everyone was rushing to it and I saw all this irony to it.

I just…what can I say? I just thought the shit was wack. i thought it was wack and they caught me drunk in the hallway and asked me what I thought. I’m a sarcastic bastard and when I’m drunk I don’t hold back and I said I thought the shit was wack, basically. And whatever. I don’t care. There’s gotta be some sort of check here. For me, I’m embarrassed when I get caught out there criticizing other people. It’s something that I try not to do. Usually it takes about a gallon of vodka, which is approximately what I had in my body at the time. The culture that I come from is a really competitive one. There’s also some guidelines to it.

I just got weirded out by it. This dude just brought a bunch of strippers on stage, like 30 of them with asses out, booty shaking and everything doing a 2 Live Crew song. And a whole bunch of white people running up like it was a new sound and jumping around and going crazy. It just felt weird to me and I reacted to it. I shouldn’t have said anything. I actually like the Spank Rock record. He was doing a 2 Live Crew tribute and all that shit. I don’t have a problem. I don’t know that dude. I wasn’t thrilled by it and someone asked me literally right after I had just seen it and I’m a fucking asshole.

Frankly, I wish i didn’t say it because it doesn’t matter what I think. And it’s none of my business. If that’s what they wanna do and that’s their thing, then they should do it. In closed quarters I have my own opinions about music and my own thing. Every once in a while that really rash, brash, young part of me comes out that’s really critical about people. Sometimes it just slips out. The fact of the matter is it that it doesn’t fucking matter.

215: As I mentioned before, there is a big difference between the Company Flow EL-P and the El-P right now. There has been a lot of progression. Do you look at it like you’re progressing in hip hop? Do you ever second guess what you’re doing musically?

EL-P: No.

215: Done with that?

EL-P: Yes.

215: Ok…Would you say that you’ve played a major role as far as the direction of where independent hip hop is right now?

EL-P: I would never say that. Someone might say it.

215: If I said it, would you agree with me?

El-P: No. I would thank you. I’d say thanks for thinking that. That’s cool. Personally, I was lucky enough to be there. To be part of the seed. I’ve been involved for years and I’ve tried to do good within that scene. I’ve tried to help push it along. Hopefully, I’ve done something and I’ll continue to do things to help that are positive and contribute to the whole shit. I certainly don’t wake up every morning and pat myself on the back and think “goddamn.” I just don’t think that way. I like it when people tell me they think that way because it feels nice to be appreciated. It’s nice when people say things and it just happens to be something you like hearing. The fact of the matter is, I’m just doing my shit and I always have been. I have good intentions and I hope It means something. It doesn’t necessarily to everyone and I understand that.

215: Recently, you’ve put out records with Del and Dizzee Rascal and started to work with more artists outside of your direct circle. Was that an intentional move?

EL-P: Del is actually a good friend of mine. He’s not been publicly a part of my inner circle, but he’s been a friend of mine for a long time. When that popped up it was like a no-brainer. The Dizzee thing, it was kinda like fuck it. Why not? My partner Amaechi was cool with his management and they were looking for a deal in the U.S. They knew what we were about and it just kinda came about. Before that, we were actually fans of Dizzee’s music. I have been making a slightly conscious effort to expand a little beyond. I don’t want Def Jux just to be a small little repetitive thing. I think everyone should be open to different shit. To a degree, it’s also a calculated step to open up a little and to get other people involved. But mostly it’s fun to me.

215: About 5-6 years ago, when you were in Philly, your tour bus got tagged up pretty bad. A graf writer I know wanted me to ask you about that.

EL-P: That was just some fuck you shit, basically. (laughs). I mean, what can I say? I was that same dude at a certain point. The dudes who did it eventually were like “look man it was a misunderstanding between us and some cats” and they were like, “Fuck you.” It was whatever man. It’s not a big deal. I used to run with graffiti writers. That type of shit is funny to me, to be honest. The fact of the matter is, we managed to get it off of the bus pretty quickly (laughs). I might have been a little more upset if the shit had stuck. It is what it is man. I look at those things like classic moments. I look at it like, “remember that time?” It’s all good. I love Philly. When we come to Philly we have a great ass time.

215: I was actually going to ask what you thought about Philly.

EL-P: I love Philly. It’s the shit. Philly’s one of those cities that’s hip hop. It’s hungry. You go to the shows and cats just wild the fuck out. It’s like, “you know we love this shit.”

215: Any artists from Philly you’re feeling at the moment?

EL-P: Name some and I’ll tell you. (laughs). I’m just fucking with you. To be honest, I love The Roots’ new album. I’m into Peedi Crack. And Dice. I’ve known Dice Raw since back in the day. I think Dice is gonna pop soon. I’m waiting for his solo shit to really jump off. I’ve always been into that crew and I have a lot of respect for them and what they do musically.

215: Last words?

EL-P: Umm…no.

215: That works.

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